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Talk:Super Shenron
Separate Being If you watch episode 31, Zuno speaks of Zalama by name and calls him the Dragon God. He calls the dragon "Divine Dragon", Dragon of the Gods. If it was Zalama, he wouldn't be called the Dragon God SSGKakarotto (talk) 23:49, April 26, 2016 (UTC) It's the same Dragon but it was refer b''y other adjectives, the manga sa'ys the same thing 23:52, April 26, 2016 (UTC)'' Zuno calls Zalama by name and calls the Dragon, Divine Dragon. SSGKakarotto (talk) 23:57, April 26, 2016 (UTC) Recreate Timeline 2? Wait, couldn't they have just gathered up the Super Dragon Balls and wished for Universe 7 in Timline 2 to be recreated, and revive everyone that was killed by Zamasu and if they could the androids? Was there anything that implied that this couldn't be done? Because if there wasn't, why didn't they think of this? This would literally solve all of the problems made by Zamasu. ? TNTDiscoCisco (talk) 00:14, November 22, 2016 (UTC) ::Interesting theory, and i gotta wonder that to. If the SDBs are so powerful they should be able to recreate timeline 2, and restore everyone killed/erased except Zamasu, Fusion Zamasu, and Black. Maybe it's implied that only Zen-Oh can undo his actions.--Made up Character Wiki Admin Jack Jackson Page I ignore 05:47, November 22, 2016 (UTC) ::I think they were truly just too stupid. That doesn't make any sense how Zen-Oh's destruciton can't be fixed by Super Shenron. Future Trunks is truly the most unlucky character ever. TNTDiscoCisco (talk) 15:47, November 22, 2016 (UTC) Death of Super Shenron Hi everyone, User:DragonEmeperor, User:Rogeta234 and I are in a clash on the topic about how Future Super Shenron died. They insist to say (and to write on the page Super Shenron) that he died because Future Zamasu and Black Goku wished to Super Shenron to kill himself, while I think that they rather destroyed the Super Dragon Balls by themselves, with their powers. The point is that DragonEmeperor and Rogeta234's claim is not supported by any proof, or at least they have not been able to bring any so far, while I can hereby give you the link to the actual episode of Super where the two explain what they have done with the Future Super Dragon Balls; here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09-22ahIZG0&ab_channel=GrandPriest at minute 3:29, Future Zamasu and Black Goku explicitly say that they have destroyed the Super Dragon Balls (they say "we destroyed the Super Dragon Balls" and not "we wished to Super Shenron to kill himself" and whatnot), and the subject is not brought to the attention again in any other episode. So we can at least '''say that '''we don't know how they destroyed the Super Dragon Balls. But at that, you can add that destroying the Super Dragon Balls with their own powers would have been easier and waaay '''more rapid for Black Goku and Future Zamasu to do, considering that destroying planet-sized things is not such a feat in the Dragon World... So, in conclusion, I would like to know what the other users of the community think about the subject, because as of now, DragonEmeperor and Rogeta234's point of view seems just plain misinformation, to me, and as of now their claim should be removed from the page. Borticon (talk) 10:20, November 19, 2017 (UTC) :Eternal Dragons have are as strong as their creators, and, considering Super Shenron is said to be created by a 'Dragon God, Zarama' it's reasonable to assume he is far stronger than Zamasu and Goku black. Meaning it woud NOT be easier. The only explanation is that they wished upon the Super Dragon Balls, as Zamasu was clearly FAR weaker than Goku, who is clearly weaker than the Gods of Destruction, who have very little knowledge of the Super Dragon Balls, which implies that Dragon God Zarama far exceeds their comprehension. Considering how much weaker Merged Zamasu was when compared to Beerus, it is fair to assume that Zarama, who created a Dragon that Vegeta believes can revive erased Universes, would actually be far stronger than even Zeno. Until we actually see Zarama, however, we can not confirm Super Shenron's strength. Until then, the page stays as is. ExyleCage (talk) 23:56, November 19, 2017 (UTC) ::The theory makes some sense but it is far-fetched nonetheless. Magical potency and Ki-based strength are two separate and independent things. Goku has no magical powers but he could easily kill the likes of Fortuneteller Baba, in later Buu's saga he could have easily killed even Supreme Kais, who are literal gods with the power to create life from nothing. So, left alone the assumptions (that are just that; fan-made '''assumptions), I don't see any reason for why Zamasu could not have destroyed Super Shenron by himself. Besides, your thoughts seem very convoluted for Toriyama. We are talking about a man who is not very famous for overthinking his stories, to the point that he deliberately mess with their consistency just to have an easier life. He invented the Super Saiyan transformation by not putting color on Goku's hair... --Borticon (talk) 08:46, November 20, 2017 (UTC) :::Throwing in my two cents, I have to agree with ExyleCage and the others. For one, the SDB's themselves are not only bigger than planets, but considering how durable regular DB's have been shown, I highly doubt they could be destroyed that easily. As for Super Shenron, let's not forget that regular Shenron is only that "weak" because his creator(s) are weak mortals even weaker than the weakest Supreme Kai, possibly weaker than even the lower Kais. Now, if Zarama's power is at least equal to that of the average SK, then it's logical to assume Super Shenron's power faaaar exceeds that of Porunga and/or regular Shenron and is therefore much more difficult to kill. Plus, let's not forget that Shin was about as strong as Cell, and he's likely the weakest of all SK's, so I highly doubt killing a SK is that easy. I think even the Elder Kai can not be killed so easily. Now, about Zarama's power, here's something to consider: He's likely more powerful than even angels like Whis (considering with all his and Vados' power, Champa still needed the SDB to get what he wanted), is a relatively unknown figure even to the GoD's, and clearly is too important to be summoned by the GP whenever he wants, as evidenced when the GP summoned all the gods, the only ones that didn't show up where the ones not equally important as the GoD's and SK's. And considering it's highly doubtful Zarama is as unimportant as the lower Kais, he must be beyond even the GP's authority. Timjer (talk) 13:21, November 20, 2017 (UTC) Limitations of Super Shenron? Maybe? Hi. I recently made an edit to the page, stating that Super Sheron does have limitations to the wishes made of him. I used the example of Future Zamasu's wish for immortality having a limitation due to the fact he was erased (and therefore killed) by Future Zeno. There is a user on this site who disagrees with me and keeps undoing my edits without posting sufficient evidence to explain them. That is why I have posted this topic - to discuss evidence and points of view. Please explain how the "immortality" granted to Future Zamasu is "without limitation" if Future Zamasu can be killed. Thanks! I should also note that I am not trying to trivialise Super Shenron's power - I believe his power to be far, far beyond almost everyone in the DB Universe, including the Grand Priest. The issue I have is the statement that his wishes have "no limitations" when the evidence suggests otherwise. I'm also trying to fix the page, as without my edit, the statement that the wishes have "no limitations" contradicts the part on the current page about Zeno being "undefeatable by anyone" (inlcuding Super Shenron). The current page just makes more sense with my edit and doesn't have that logical fallicy on it. TheMightyHal (talk) 22:06, November 16, 2018 (UTC) Immortality being null against Zeno has nothing to do with Super Shenrons power, so far his wishing power is shown unlimited. It is only Immortality that is shown to be ineffective against Zeno, and in the manga Immortality is shown to be weak against Hakai too as Goku was killing Fused Zamasu with Hakai and Fused Zamasu had to rely on trickery to get out of it(he grabbed Mai, so Goku ended the tech) FlatZone (talk) 22:35, November 16, 2018 (UTC) ^ That's kind of my point. The immortality that was granted to Future Zamasu was limited in nature, which demonstrates that Super Shenron can only do so much. The whole point of the wish was to make sure that Future Zamasu could not be killed by anyone. That is why he used Super Shenron for that wish - because there is a belief in the DB Universe that Super Shenron can grant wishes without limitation, including immortality without limitation. However, the fact that his immortality had clear limitations shows that Super Shenron's power is indeed limited. TheMightyHal (talk) 22:43, November 16, 2018 (UTC) Naw man. In the dragonball world the order of the top is Toriyama(Toribot) and Zeno, they can do literally anything because Toriyama says so. So outside of them, Super Shenron really can do anything. FlatZone (talk) 22:49, November 16, 2018 (UTC) ^ Again, that's my point. You keep posting evidence that proves my point. If Super Shenron could grant wishes without restriction, a wish to Super Shenron should be able to kill Zeno. But as you said, Akira and Zeno are stronger than Super Shenron, so Super Shenron can't grant those wishes if they were made. What you are essentially saying is "Super Shenron can grant any wish, but he can't grant certain wishes." - which is what I'm trying to say too. That is my only edit to the page - to say that Super Shenron can grant ALMOST any wish. That is the only thing I want to change. Obviously, some members don't want this changed (I'm not talking about you, FlatZone) because they'd rather believe what they want to believe rather than what the series actually shows us. I'm okay with that; I won't try to alter the page again - at least you all have let me have my say. Thanks. TheMightyHal (talk) 22:55, November 16, 2018 (UTC) :Look, it's simple. The problem didn't lie with Super Shenron, it lied with Zamasu's wish itself. He "merely" wished for immortality, despite Zeno's power clearly transcending that. Zeno simply has the power to erase regular immortals. If Zamasu wished for example to be immune to Erasure, I'm sure Super Shenron might have been able to grant that. However, I personally think that he may not be allowed to grant such a wish, even if he can. Regardless, the problem clearly does not lie with Super Shenrons power. Timjer (talk) 12:23, November 17, 2018 (UTC) ^ I hear you - maybe Future Zamasu's wish for immortality didn't grant the dictionary's definition of immortality (exempt from dying/oblivion). Maybe Super Shenron's definition of immortality is different. Maybe Super Shenron could grant a wish that could protect against Erasure so that Future Zamasu could be truly immortal. This is a lot of "maybes" - let's look at the evidence. The evidence shown on screen speaks more in favour of Super Shenron being incapable of doing anything against Zeno's power (or that of any other stronger being, if they existed). Future Zamasu's immortality was nearly perfect - even with his physical form destroyed, his immortality allowed him to become a being that no-one but Zeno could kill. There is a statement that Zeno is undefeatable and exists above all others - such a statement would mean that there are restrictions to Super Shenron's wishes. If the statement was true, Super Shenron could not grant a wish for the defeat of Zeno nor could he grant a wish that could protect a person against Zeno's power. I guess the real question I want to ask is: which statement is correct? Super Shenron being able to grant any wish? Or Zeno being undefeatable and existing above all others? They obviously can't both be correct. To me, the death of Future Zamasu at the hands of Future Zeno is evidence that confirms the truth of the statement about Zeno's power and therefore shows that Super Shenron cannot truly grant any wish.TheMightyHal (talk) 13:26, November 17, 2018 (UTC) Heres an idea why doesn't someone ask Akira Toriyama himself what the limits are (example if someone could swap bodies with Zeno or become Zenos equal or if Zeno has total immunity to SS' power Blechmaster (talk) 03:41, December 3, 2018 (UTC)